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Took a peek at DA's new commission widget. Right idea, wrong execution IMO.

I'd much rather be able to accept actual money than DA's faulty and cumbersome point system, and the fact DA takes a "cut" of the commission money just for using the app is a really shitty move.

For example a $30 commission = 3000 points, but I would only get 2400 points or $24 according to the widget. That means DA is taking about a 20% cut of your earnings, which is bullshit. Also, the app only goes up to a maximum of 4000 points. So people who charge more than $40 can't use the app.

I'm probably not even doing the math correctly, it just seems overly laborious and frustratingly convoluted. I'm all for an app that makes taking commissions easier, and honestly 10 years was a LONG way to wait for such an app to finally be implemented.. It just needs refining.

It just makes more work for the consumers to force them to put down money to buy points (which DA takes a percentage of), only to allow them to pay for a commission from an artist where the artist loses a percentage (thanks again DA). People shouldn't have to pay for points and should be able to just pay the artist directly through paypal or however they want to be paid by a simple drop-down menu option. And if DA wants a cut for us using their app, it should be far less than 20%.

Apps like this are supposed to make the work load easier, and while it does make it somewhat lighter for the artist, it makes it more cumbersome for the potential clients. Like I said already, I like the idea but hate the implementation thus far. I'm sure it'll improve as time goes on, but for the moment it just seems kinda broken. 2 steps forward 1 step back.

IMO the only justifiable way to charge the artist 20% for their commission is if they aren't already paying a subscription fee. That way more people will want to buy the subscription service, the app is now free, DA still makes tons of money, while the artist and commissioner don't get screwed out of money. Everyone wins.

****

You know what would be a fun little app that would be extraordinarily beneficial? An app that displays art from the galleries of users who recently visited the page. Kinda like the "favorites" app but one which shows other artist's work you probably wouldn't have seen otherwise. While not beneficial for everyone, for someone like me it would be very helpful because my page sees a lot of traffic and being able to display people's art just because they visited me right on my page would really help them get more views and attention. I dunno, just a thought...
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:iconfaeorain:
faeorain Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Oh, I forgot I wanted to comment about that other idea. So long as a visitors images widget is optional, I'd say it's not a bad idea. I'd most likely never use it myself because some pretty freaky people have visited my page and there are just some images here on DA that I'd prefer did not pop up on my profile page.
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:iconfaeorain:
faeorain Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I'm trying out the widget myself, just out of curiosity, both as a seller and a buyer, and I tend to agree with most of what you've wrote here. I've always felt the 20% was a bit steep, especially since they will get that cut, every time, from anyone who sells. Too bad it couldn't be an app that you pay for one time and can use indefinitely on your account...much like any other app for ipods/iphones and similar gadgets. That way developers still get paid for their work without artists getting taken to the cleaners.

I've requested some commissions in the past the old fashioned way, and so far, everything went okay with those requests...but at this moment, I'm waiting on two people, the only two I've paid for commissions through the widget, and nothing is happening with them. One of them is 3 weeks old now, the other just over a week old. They were low cost commissions because I wanted to test the system out, and I'm glad I chose low cost ones...I'd be more upset if I paid these people 1000 or more points only to have them not do the work. What some people may not realize, is that DA only allows 7 days for a refund from the time the artist accepts the commission. If you want to give them more time to work on it, you take a risk of losing those points if they don't come through. Also, DA states it's up to the buyer if they want to refund, but I'm thinking in cases where people don't do the work at all, it should be up to DA to make sure buyers get their points (money) back.
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:iconyzabel:
Yzabel Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I haven't tried the widget, since I'm not able to work on commissions at the moment, but I pretty much agree. For starters, "4000 points" seems a lot to many people (who may not feel so squeamish if it was "30$", I think it's due to the same mind-tricking effect that makes us prefer to buy stuff priced at 9.99$ rather than 10$?). And I, like many artists, wouldn't know what to make of points anyway. I want to be able to pay my bills, not buy some fancy print on dA.

I probably wouldn't have better ideas to offer, though. But allowing to pay in REAL money would already be better. (And I like the idea of taking a commission only if the artist isn't already paying for a subscription.)
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:iconstrawberrynekos:
strawberrynekos Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
You can get it in real money. After you get paid, and 14 clearance period days have passed, then you can choose to change it to points or money.
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:icontails-fan1:
TAILS-FAN1 Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
I like your idea for checking out art of others. Although, it works best when new people visit your page and you're very popular like you are.
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:iconsapphiresenthiss:
Sapphiresenthiss Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Is it about points too, or only about money?
I mean, if I want 100 points for commish, will I get 100 or 80? :hmm:
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:iconsnowytony94:
snowytony94 Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
Seeing as I neither work to nor request commisions, this doesn't affect me so much. But I see where you are coming from. A more reasonable percentage, say 5%, along with an unlimited payment total would perhaps encourage more people to use it.
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:iconsnapai:
Snapai Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Professional Filmographer
You forgot one thing here- DA *also* takes a cut of any cash-to-points-to-cash transaction.
While 4000 points converts to $40, in order to buy 4000 points you have to give DA $50.

So a 4000 point commission costs $50 in realworld currency, but only earns you a max of $32.

That's an $18 dollar difference on $50, or basically DA is taking 36% of all money that goes into the commission system
(or charging a 56% fee if you are looking at the final dollar amount instead of the starting amount)
And that's a ripoff.

That's over 10x what Paypal charges. (Paypal's current highest US rate is 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction)
So, needless to say, I won't be using the DA commission widget.
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:icontompreston:
TomPreston Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Pretty much this.
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:iconshareyourworldwide:
shareyourworldwide Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
I don't think it would help me with my art, I'm not that good at it. (Writing on the other hand...)
I see your point with the app and have to agree, your points sound valid, a direct link to Paypal would be adviseable.
Cheers
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:iconhinata-teh-lefty:
Hinata-teh-Lefty Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Student Photographer
I'm not paying $5 to send the money to paypal. What a rip-off. BI
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:icontompreston:
TomPreston Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You misunderstand, you need to have a minimum balance of $5 worth of points before you're allowed to transfer to your paypal. In other words, if you have $4.99 saved up in DA points, you can't transfer any of that to your account because it's under the $5 minimum. It doesn't cost you to transfer I don't think...
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:iconhinata-teh-lefty:
Hinata-teh-Lefty Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Student Photographer
That's what it was saying on mine...
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:iconhotaru-no-mayowasu:
Hotaru-No-Mayowasu Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Student General Artist
I agree to both statements. I like your app idea and agree that the point system is messed up. It'll probably take years before they realize how messed up though and they go and fix it.
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:iconthe-overfiend:
the-overfiend Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Checked out the App. Interested, but at the same time, not as much. As some other have stated, the 20% charge could be used to simply cover dA's butt in terms of handling the heavy costs of coding and management (especially considering how many times we've seen the sites layout changing over the passed several months.) That I'm more than willing to forgive; after all, business is business and often compromises have to be made.

However, I'm still relatively new to actually trafficking commissions myself, and I'm having enough 'fun' with transferring funds to and from my PayPal account. I may be willing to give this app. another shot once my subscriptions starts to run low on time for need of a new one.


Anyhoo, the suggestion of that 'Guest Gallery Preview' app sounds pretty awesome! For the few people who visit my page, I'd like to see what they dish out, especially considering much of my internet time as of late has been on a wee bit of a time crunch.
Then again, considering how much work it'd likely take for an application like that to be made and implemented, we're back to the 20% cover charge from the Commission app. xD

Keep up with the optimism!
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:iconmaplestrip:
Maplestrip Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
*looks at the percentage of 20% with dissaproving eyes*
I think dA is hoping nobody would notice 0.o that really is pretty shitty of them...

Also, that app idea is really interesting. Looking at how dA handles things I really doubt they would make something like that, but it is nevertheless a good idea!
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:iconoverseer:
overseer Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013   Digital Artist
My take on this is, that dA is one of the, if not the largest artist social network currently available. The advantage of dA is that there are so many levels of talent and so many different artists; from novice to professional showing their works alike. With (last thing I heard) over 27 million users the cost of hardware and data should be quite substantial.

And yes, I know, there are subscription charges, and yes, if you don't subscribe there are ads (is there anyone that doesn't use an adblocker nowadays?). Maybe 20% is high, maybe it is unreasonable, but then the artist is getting a free platform, free exsposure, and all the site maintenance that needs to be done is cosmetic. Plus, with a subscription you also get the Portfolio page, which, as a simple gallery works well.

I'm not trying to excuse everything dA does by any means, but I know the costs and work invovled in maintaining and coding a website, I've done it too, in my time, so...

Plus if you're a clever trades person, simply charge 20% more for your comissions and you don't have to worry about it. Why do you think companies can offer free shipping (aside from volume)? Because a little price increase in the items covers it. To the same tune you can find items online that might cost $2 and then you end up paying $7.99 for shipping; nothing's free, it's as simple as that.

:shrug:
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:iconfallingwithoutstyle:
FallingWithoutStyle Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Student Writer
Although I do agree with pretty much everything you said, you /can/ withdraw the amount in cash. It's just like if someone buys a print. You can transfer the "my earnings" to an account, although I forget exactly how it works.
Doesn't change that the app needs some thinking over though. I understand that dA wants to make money, but 20%? Just... no.
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:icongenisay:
Genisay Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Blah....read your first part alone and was already seeing what you meant by 'wrong direction'. No thanks DA, I'll keep making my own commission pages and getting the money for my work, rather then those points that can only be used on DA.
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:iconvaslittlecrow:
vaslittlecrow Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
THANK YOU!
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:iconkayru-kitsune:
Kayru-Kitsune Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Doesn't seem easier to me at all. Just a money-grubbing attempt. I don't see much of a 'work load' in PayPal.
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:iconwoohooligan:
woohooligan Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
I agree on the execution issues... I had suggested this kind of widget a while ago and when I made the suggestion (not being the only person to suggest it), I'd suggested that it just be a premium feature like polls. That made the most sense to me - it encourages people to pay for the subscription. They probably chose a percentage because subscriptions aren't (anymore) their main source of revenue, and I can buy that reasoning, but 20% is way too high and they definitely should be letting people accept credit-card / paypal payments and payments over $50.
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:icontompreston:
TomPreston Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
If people aren't buying subscriptions as much anymore, it's because DA isn't making subscriptions a worthwhile investment for us. I keep seeing people say "business is business they gotta make money somehow" but... shouldn't their business plan be to offer services we want to pay, not gouge us for money we don't want to give?
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:iconwoohooligan:
woohooligan Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
:nod: I still feel like I get plenty of value out of my own subscription now several years ongoing. But their choice on how to price the commission widget seems a bit wacky.
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:iconaerisami:
aerisami Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Art galleries (as in physical stores you can walk into) take a commission for each piece of art they sell. 20% would actually be really low for a gallery. Granted, I haven't (and probably won't) used this system and it sounds confusing. But, a 20% commission really isn't that bad when compared to galleries that will take up to a 40% commission for the sale of artwork.
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:icongenisay:
Genisay Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You are also talking about a physical gallery space, and the fact that in that case, a lot of artists need that space to show their work.
Here we are talking a digital middle-man-service, one that is not as necissary. I think they are pushing their limits on fee for a service most of us do without, and then loading a bunch of limitations on it to boot. Sounds like just a money squeeze to me.
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:icontompreston:
TomPreston Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'm sorry but DA doesn't have the artistic clout to charge what an actual art gallery would charge. Especially since its all digital and you're not paying for physical space to showcase your work.
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:iconaerisami:
aerisami Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't disagree with you, I was just making a comparison.
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:iconcraigmcarthur:
CraigMcArthur Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
Everything has to start somewhere, if they banned listing paypal addresses etc for commissions to force people in to their own market place I could understand anger but at the end of the day it's a simple little add on in its foundation stages of life.

Everyone should critique and suggest improvements. dA is nothing if not a place that listens to their community. After all, in the last 8-9 years I've always seen changes and improvements to the site be brought on slightly tacky from the fresh paint job. But it dries, people get used to playing with it and the holes are filled in as time goes along. This is a groundbreaking development for artists, it'll have its teething. It'll get resolved. And if it's not your thing; the old methods are still available.

Not many sites would have given the choice.
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:icont3h-puppeteer:
t3h-puppeteer Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I guess DeviantART figures that people won't charge more than $40. I've seen people a LOT more than that... :I

I actually like your idea for an app - promote the visitors that visit your page. ;P
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:iconandrew19787:
AnDrew19787 Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Filmographer
The other thing that's dumb about the app is, unless they've changed it and I hadn't noticed, that you can't convert points to money which means anything you earn from commissions can only be spent in dA.

But yes, I think an app that helps lesser-known artists get noticed would be a great idea.
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:iconliggliluff:
Liggliluff Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You know, there isn't any additional charge when buying points. They say that $1 is equal to 80 points. And if they said 50 points cost $1, would that mean they take 50%? No... $1 is equal to 80 points, not 100 points. No charge there.
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:iconfallingwithoutstyle:
FallingWithoutStyle Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Student Writer
I'm sorry, but can you clarify? I'm not understanding what you mean.
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:icongenisay:
Genisay Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ah, but they bite you on exchange value when you are buying things. At 80 points, $1 dollar loses part of it's value and become 80 cents in the terms of how much things cost when purchased. The conversion rate backward is not the same.
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:iconliggliluff:
Liggliluff Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, that's true. But saying that they take 20% off the points when buying just because you get 80 instead of 100 is not right. They set the value on their fantasy-currency.
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:icongenisay:
Genisay Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
But does 80 points convert back to a whole dollar? A lot of these companies don't whole value when doing reverse conversions. I know, I've had it happen before.
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:iconpassin:
Passin Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013
An interesting set of thoughts.

When it comes to transactions on DA, I've been sitting, waiting for them to sort out the problems I have paying them. The last time I had to use paypal to buy points because their system had a problem with my card. Still have yet to receive any help and this was around springtime 2012 I think.
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:iconratjay:
ratjay Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I do points only commissions on my accounts because I do commissions because I can. Not thinking of using the commission widget though. Screw that.
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:iconmidnightmagnificent:
MidNightMagnificent Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Personally, I wouldn't use it. One, I think it takes too much away from the artist I want to commission, and two, I'd rather interact with an artist on here before getting him/her to do a commissioned piece for me. The widget just makes it feel too much like a pure business transaction to me, which is not what I come to dA for.
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:icondualmask:
Dualmask Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
They lost me at the 20% fee. Eff that. I do just fine with PayPal.
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:iconthatfalsehat:
ThatFalseHat Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist
I can see now what "deviantART loves you!" at the bottom of this page means...
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:iconnocturnal-dayz:
Nocturnal-Dayz Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013
If those numbers are true, 20% does seem like a huge chunk of potential earnings. You bring up a lot of interesting points here. I'd rather there at least be the option to pay with points OR straight up cash. I'm not familiar with the way commissions work, yet those ideas seem like they could work well.

And your idea for an app for visiting users sounds brilliant. From the numbers I've seen, I only ever get (barely any) exposure if someone just happens to click my name IF I post a comment or some-such on a well known artist's page or deviation. With your idea, fans of the heavy hitters and legendary artists on DA may get a little more attention if there was a little thumbnail of one of their submissions next to them...or something along those lines. With the way it is now, I'm lucky to get so much as a glance from one person, and unless you have at least a hundred followers you're lucky to see anywhere close to the front page of even the search results.

As much as I want to believe the numbers don't matter, no one I know would say "no" to a little more exposure to their work. But maybe that's just me. :shrug:
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:iconavarifina:
Avarifina Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
mhhm
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:icontwotigermoon:
TwoTigerMoon Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013
I don't take point commissions because; you know what, DA points do not help pay the rent. Also 20% cut, holy hell, that's ridiculous!
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:iconjessajakejimjam:
Jessajakejimjam Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013
I really like your idea for an app! Its so hard to break through the website's hierarchy. Being able to see other artists' works on a popular artist's page would be really good advertising. Even with deviantart changing the way the front page works, it still seems impossible to get onto it.
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:iconyour-first-boyfriend:
your-first-boyfriend Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
You play Harvest Moon 3D too!? Good thing no one would ever buy my art. Can't you just sell your work on another site though? Or does dA have a gimmick of some sort?
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:iconmajicfrog:
majicfrog Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013
Wouldn't be surprised if dA soon banned all commissions that aren't through the system. They've found a new way to make money, and you'll be damn sure they'll latch onto it.
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:icongenisay:
Genisay Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
They wouldn't be able to though, people would just direct others to free personal galleries, and use notes and email to arrange things. Not to mention the guff they would get for a dick move like that.
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:iconmajicfrog:
majicfrog Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
Wouldn't stop them from trying.
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